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Яхве, Бог Израиля- кто он? Yahweh God of Israel - who is he?

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Монография «Cabala, Speculum Artis Et Naturae In Alchymia», издана в 1654 г, автор Stephan Michelspacher.
Здесь можно её почитать, и рисунки увеличить, чтоб детали были видны- http://digital.slub-dresden.de/sammlung … 7166578/0/

увеличить

Отредактировано Nagual.men (2010-09-09 19:05:42)

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Очень ценная картинка! Первое, самое важное - это то, что борода Сетха входит в его рот, что полностью соответствует ее функции- пожирания душ человеческих. Он здесь представлен как Бог годового цикла, ибо его Тело, Голова и Хвост охватывают почти все пространство Солнечного года. Не напрасно в течении почти тысячи лет в храме Иерусалимском ему ежедневно приносились жертвы. Когда жертвы Божеству приносятся каждый день - то это означает что каждый день годового цикла управляется этим Божеством. Таким образом, Сетх из локального Бога выходит на уровень Бога солнечной системы. Земля находится под его Телом, а это означает полный контроль за всеми процессами. Сфера над ним очевидно представляет астральный аспект Солнечной системы. Колпак на голове похож на папскую тиару, на ней- гексаграмма, всего их 7 - 6 выходят из центральной, одна на колпаке. Центральная, верхняя Гексаграмма очевидно есть изображение Эйн Соф Каббалы.
Единственно, что непонятно- это вымя Сетха. У кого есть версии, чтобы это значило?

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Ulis написал(а):

Единственно, что непонятно- это вымя Сетха. У кого есть версии, чтобы это значило?

На вымени видно 3 сосца. Может это иудаизм, христианство и ислам?
Сетх же не всех кушает, своих агентов он вынужден "кормить". Иначе его вообще все кинут.

Отредактировано Nagual.men (2010-09-12 18:26:33)

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Сетх - это не ОН и не ОНА. Это ОНО. Может оно само тварь?

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РусскийUlis уже высказывал эту версию. Точнее сначала писал, что Сетх самородный, потом- что тварь.
Кстати, мне рога на его колпаке, и сосцы, напомнили образ Небесной коровы - http://mith.ru/alb/lib/myth/antes1.htm

увеличить

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Nagual.men написал(а):

Сетх же не всех кушает, своих агентов он вынужден "кормить". Иначе его вообще все кинут.

Мне тоже так кажется. Он же теперь заменяет нам мать, обязан и кормить детей-земли тогда. Раз бог без богини то её самые важные функции вынужден брать себе, как бы он этого сам не хотел. Молоко первая пища, но его молоко яд. С молоком матери...

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Nagual.men и Eocen. Это грамотная версия. Небесная корова-  ХатХор, Хат- это Хата, Дом, точный перевод - Дом Гора. ХатХор, она же Нут, ее персонификация на Земле - Исида. Когда Сетх занял место Осириса, он начал войну и с Исидой, дабы занять ее место в Астрале. В Египте ему это не удалось, как он ни старался. 1000 лет в Иерусалимском храме ему ежедневно приносили многочисленные жертвы- так он накапливал силы и утверждался как Бог годового круга. Но окончательную победу над Исидой он смог одержать только благодаря Иисусу, который пришел "Чтобы уничтожить дела Женщины". Когда он стал Богом Отцом в христианстве, в его функции вошли обязанности, которые ранее выполняла ХатХор - кормить своих служителей - тот самый черный рой арапов, которые несут и расчесывают его чародейскую бороду.

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Nagual.men написал(а):

На картинке Яхве-Сетх-Черномор. Лысый, бородатый, в руках не серп и молот, но коса и молоточек. На небе вокруг звёзды-пентаграммы, которые он сводит в небосклона, и Луна-полумесяц. Звонит в колокольчик- это видимо "по ком звонит колокол...".

Канонический знак-символ Сатурна - серп или коса смерти

http://www.antikwariat.ru/artpictures/albums/userpics/10001/akimov.jpg

Является ли Сатурн Сетхом?

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Нет, не является. Ибо серп Сатурна-Кроноса по наследству достался его сыну - Зевсу и он воевал с Тифоном - Сетхом за право обладания им.

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Ulis написал(а):

Нет, не является. Ибо серп Сатурна-Кроноса по наследству достался его сыну - Зевсу и он воевал с Тифоном - Сетхом за право обладания им.

На новогодней картинке был Сатурн а не Сетх, я к этому написал.

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хитрый сетх всех одурачил :jumping:

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Ulis написал(а):

Небесная корова-  ХатХор, Хат- это Хата, Дом, точный перевод - Дом Гора. ХатХор, она же Нут, ее персонификация на Земле - Исида.

Ulis,

you interpretation of Hathor is pretentiously wrong and misleading. As a matter of fact, I read a lot of your articles (I liked most of them) and found out that many word definitions you give in you rather brilliant explanations are based on Judeo-Masonic teachings interwoven with Hermetism and partially Rosicrucianism (Cosmoc Kristos, etc). I wanted to object slightly that you cannot interpret the meaning of "Hathor" using modern "Ek-Gipto-Russian" neuro-lingual container "ХатХор" as "...это Хата, Дом, точный перевод - Дом Гора. ХатХор, она же Нут, ее персонификация на Земле - Исида..." This is typical Judeo-Masonic "verbal artificial matrix" or in Russian would be called simply "словоблудие".

The definition of the neuro-lingual container of "HATHOR" has really nothing to do with Judeo-Masonic-Hermetic-Rosicrucian and Ek-Gipto-Russian modern nonsense:

THE MAIN GODDESS OF ARYAN CULTURE BEFORE EGYPT (PRE-DYNASTIC PHARAONIC EGYPT)WAS AN ARYAN GODDESS-MOTHER MAKOSH (please note - not Semitic Torahic LILITH as one use noted before in the same thread).

The ARYAN word МАКОШЬ (as you see words defines who were Aryans) was transliterated later into Khemetic MEHET (correct pronunciation MEHETH, where letter [K] in SLAVIC ARYAN MAKOSH was transformed into letter [H] and Slavic Aryan [SH] into [TH] and later became to sound like and to be a "KHEMETIC MEHET". EGYPTIAN MEHET (HATHOR) is a SLAVIC ARYAN [VEDIC] GODDESS MEKETH (МАКОШЬ).

Later on IN DYNASTIC EGYPT THE IDENTITY OF MAKOSH WAS DIVIDED INTO MA & HOSH. MA BECAME TO BE KNOWN AS MA'AT (МАТЬ) and KOSH or HOTH, where neuro-lingual container of KOSH transliterated (mutated) into "HOSH" that sounded identical as "HATH". Ending OR used to be HATH-HORS, where the second word "HORS" simply means Slavic Aryan "god" HORS (ХОРС). With the simplification of double word HATH-HORS it became to be "HATHOR", what really means THE MOTHER OF HORS. The Egyptian HORUS is later invented Judeo-Semitic nonsense about so called HORUS, exactly the same as artificial invention of "SETH" and the whole pantheon of "Egyptian" gods. In reality there were not "Egyptian" gods, - it is all Osirian-Mosaic and laterr followed up Semitic artificial invention - ALL OF IT. Remeber, all Egyptian gods came from Aryanism, more over almost all Egyptian names of so called "gods" came from Slavic language, which in reality is current perverted amd modernized RUSSIAN. SLAVIC WAS THAT ONE LANGUAGE OF HUMANITY ABOUT WHICH SEMITIC DEITY IS BRAGGING IN Genesis 11:7 "...Let us go down and mix up their language so that they will not understand each other."

MAKOSH (HATHOR) IS THE OLDEST GODDESS IN THE UNIVERSE THAT VEDIC ARYANS BROUGHT TO THE AREA WHERE THEY ESTABLISHED KHEMET (EGYPT) in ~26,000 BC. Later on Hathor became to be ASHERA, CONSORT OF BAAL (ВЕЛЕС) and LATER HEBREW "CYCLE" called YHWH (note that YHWH IS NOT A GOD, but cycle, simply cosmic cycle...).

In Egyptian mythology, Hathor (Egyptian for House of Horus, but correctly THE MOTHER OF HORS or HORUS [МАТЬ ХОРСА]) was originally a personification of the Milky Way (Mehet-Weret), in Slavic Aryan МАКОШЬ-СВАРГА-СВАРА-ВЕРЕТ (represented as SYMBOL OF MILKY WAY - SWASTIKA WITH FOUR SLEEVES), which was seen as the milk that flowed from the udders of a heavenly cow (Slavic Aryan ZIMUN COW (КОРОВА ЗИМУН) creating four galactic sleeves.

Hathor, an an ancient SLAVIC GODDES MAKOSH (note again - NOT SEMITIC LILITH), worshiped as a cow-deity from ~31000 BC, known to us as "HATHOR" from at least 2700 BC, during the 2nd dynasty, and even by the Scorpion King. The name Hathor refers to the encirclement by her, in the form of the Milky Way, of the night sky and consequently of the god of the sky, Horus (Slavic Aryan god HORS [ХОРС]). She was originally seen as the daughter of Ra (РаМХа), the creator whose own cosmic birth was formalized as the Ogdoad cosmogony. An alternate name for her, which persisted for at least 3,000 years, was Mehturt (also spelled Mehurt 9Mother of Hors), Mehet-Weret, and Mehet-uret), meaning great flood, a direct reference to her being the Milky Way (SWARA). The Milky Way was seen as a waterway in the heavens, sailed upon by both the sun god and the king, leading the Egyptians to describe it as The Nile in the Sky. Due to this, and the name Mehturt, she was identified as responsible for the yearly inundation of the Nile. Another consequence of this name is that she was seen as a herald of imminent birth, as when the amniotic sac breaks and floods its waters, it is a medical indicator that the child is due to be born extremely soon. HATHOR (MAKOSH) was the Goddess of Motherhood. As a provider of milk, and due to cows careful tending of their calves, the cow was a universal symbol of motherhood, and so Hathor became goddess of motherhood, gaining titles such as 'The Great Cow Who Protects Her Child' and 'Mistress of the Sanctuary of Women.' Because of the aspect of motherhood, her priests were oracles, predicting the fate of the newborn, and midwives delivering them. As a mother, since she enclosed the sky, she was seen as the mother of Horus. Symbolically she became the divine mother of the pharaoh, who was identified as Horus. Since Horus's wife was Isis, Hathor was sometimes said to be her mother, although it was more accurate to say she was her mother in law. As Horus was also said to be the son of Ra, Hathor was identified as Ra's wife (Ra created her in a non-sexual manner), gaining the title Mistress of Heaven. Having been identified as Ra's wife, it was said she arose from Ra's tears, and thus was identified as the Eye of Ra. In art, Hathor was often depicted as a golden cow (sometimes covered in stars), with the titles Cow of Gold, and The one who shines like gold, or as a woman with the ears of a cow and a headdress of horns holding the sun-disc, which represented Ra. Hathor was identified as the Pleiades. Also HATHOR (MAKOSH) was a Fertility Goddess. The cow's large eyes with long lashes and generally quiet demeanor were often considered to suggest a gentle aspect of feminine beauty. There are still cultures in the world where to say that a girl is as pretty as a heifer is a great compliment, rather than taking you cow as an insult.

And so Hathor rapidly became a goddess of beauty, and fertility, thus also a patron goddess for lovers. A tale grew up around this in which Ra is described as having been upset over Horus' victory over Set (representing the conquest of Lower Egypt by Upper Egypt), and went off to be alone, and so Hathor went to him and started to dance and stripped naked, showing him her genitals, which cheered him up, so he returned. The tale is thought also to describe a solar eclipse, as it depicts Ra, the sun, going away to sulk, and then returning when cheered up. In her position as a female fertility goddess, who readily strips naked, she was often depicted in red, the color of passion, though her sacred color is turquoise, and so gained the titles Lady of the scarlet-colored garment, and Lady of sexual offerings (Nebet Hetepet in Egyptian). This also is what ARYAN VEDIC KAMA-SUTRA meant - KAMA-SUTRA OF MAKOSH-HATHOR which was was brought to Egypt by Vedic Aryans, who in their right were siply SLAVS OR SLAVIC PEOPLE.

P.S.
"...at the beginning was WORD and THE WORD was..."GODS" [plural, but not Semitic Elohim]. Words (and neuro-lingual containers preserved in them) are THE ONLY KEY to understand the true history of humanity, all other paradigms as BIBLE, QUR'AN, TORAH-TANACH, ZOHAR, etc with consequent teachings which sprang from all of them are ARTIFICIALLY CREATED HOLOGRAPHIC MATRIX. This is why Saurian entities [plural] behind Semitic Tetragrammaton YHWH said in Genesis 11:7  "...Let us go down and mix up their language so that they will not understand each other."

Saurians knew what they were doing...

Frankenstein.

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Уважаемый Frankenstein, буду отвечать вам по русски, и для простоты перевода предложения будут предельно простыми и однозначными.
Когда я говорил, что Хатхор- это Дом Гора, имелось в виду в том числе и то, о чем пишите вы- что Хатхор есть Мать Гора. Ибо именно Исида или "И Сед" (сидящая на Троне) как персонификация богини Хатхор была матерью Гора. Так что не вижу никаких противоречий в данном случае. Однако благодарю вас за представленную вами эволюцию имени Макошь. Если Хатхор - это Макошь то это вообще снимает все вопросы относительно изначально арийского происхождения египетской цивилизации, о чем я писал в толковании поэмы Пушкина "Руслан и Людмила" http://ulisses.nm.ru/ruslan.htm - (кодировка файла юникод utf- 8). У меня то как раз нет сомнений, что египетская цивилизация имеет корни в Гиперборее - Арктиде и вы совершенно напрасно обвиняете меня в принадлежности к еврейско-масонским экзерсисам. Как раз весь смысл данного Форума и моих текстов - это разоблачение всей еврейкой, христианской и масонской "мудрости".
Однако, я не согласен с вашей мыслью, что Сет или Сетх - это вымышленный персонаж. Наши исследования, а также тексты Пушкина  показывают, что это реальная сущность, который был очевидно верховным жрецом или визирем во времена царя Осириса, составил заговор против Царя, убил его и сам стал царем. Все это описано иносказательно в поэме Пушкина "Руслан и Людмила". И мы считаем, и этому есть много доказательств, что именно Сетх является Богом Израиля. И что имя Иегова или Яхве - это просто титул, название солнечного года, о чем писал Роберт Грейвс в своем труде "Белая Богиня".

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Ulis, Сет (настоящий, реально-существовавший Сет) действительно был братом Осириса, и одним из последних сохранившихся чистокровных Атлантов. В той легенде про Сета и Осириса куда больше правды, чем может показаться.
И Сет действительно убил Осириса, с целью захватить престол, а потом воевал и со своим племянником Гором. Гор - был последним Атлантом правившим в Египте; после его смерти наступил додинастический период, а через некоторое время воцарился фараон из 1династии, считавший себя и являвшийся(предположительно) потомком Гора.
При этом Сет и др.Атланты Египта были довольно-сильными Магами, благодаря чему достигли высокого статуса и силы/власти в поссмертии.  Именно поэтому египтяне и провозгласили Атлантов, своих бывших правителей, богами.
Источник доверенный, посему уверен в этой версии на 90%.
Однако твоя версия, якобы Сет и ветхозаветный Бог - являются одной и той же личностью, на мой взгляд крайне сомнительна. Слишком отличаются описание и деяния этих 2героев, не меньше отличается и культ Сета от ветхозаветного иудаизма. Это 2 разные личности, 99% гарантии.

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Какие есть доказательства, что Сет, Осирис, Гор, а также, очевидно и Исида были Атлантами? Что за "проверенный" источник?
Чтобы заявлять так уверенно надо иметь веские доказательства, кроме уверенности. Выше Frankenstein который со мной немного полемизировал относительно родственных связей Хатхор и Гора, тем не менее, являясь сторонником версии, что древние боги Египта были Гиперборейскими, а не Атлантическими, утверждает, что богиня Макошь и Хатхор - это одна и та же Гиперборейская богиня, с чем Аз склонен согласится.
Если по твоему мнению, Яхве не является Сетом, то кто он твоему мнению? Повторю, еще раз - здесь такие версии - не проходят!
"Мне это не нравится, значит это не правильно!" Если ты утверждаешь, что  Яхве - это не Сетх, тогда приведи доказательства КТО ЭТО?
А если ответишь- "не знаю", тогда иди сам знаешь куда.... Тут такие "аналитики" даром не нужны...
А то получится как недавно с Рахаузом - не успел он заявить, что Арахноидов не существует (фактически ничего не предлагая взамен), как появились свидетельства с других источников, что таки существуют. Если заявляешь, что Яхве - это не Сетх, изволь объявить, кто он по твоему мнению...

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Ulis написал(а):

Однако, я не согласен с вашей мыслью, что Сет или Сетх - это вымышленный персонаж. Наши исследования, а также тексты Пушкина  показывают, что это реальная сущность, который был очевидно верховным жрецом или визирем во времена царя Осириса, составил заговор против Царя, убил его и сам стал царем.

Ulis,

There is one request from me, - call me "Ты", it would be much easier for me to feel "at home" on your forum... By the way, I am little sorry to communicate in English, it feels not easy knowing that other members of the forum have to read our communication in English. I promise I will start to use "Russian" keyboard and write in Russian if it will be necessary to continue to be on the forum...

Meanwhile, I am finishing to read your commentary and explanation of A. Pushkin's "Ruslan & Ludmila". I should mention that I've been already pretty familiar with the esoteric interpretations of A.P's work for quite some time. In addition I do agree that A.P's genius could come from the collective Akashic records "library" which became to be the “The ASHTAR Saurian Collective” (I assume you know what I mean). Nevertheless, there is a plenty of information which suggest that above mentioned "library" is controlled also and IS NOT COMPLETELY CLEAN, thus cannot be considered as 100% REAL VALUE of its given information. I also know that the history of HYPERBOREA IS CONCEALED IN NUMEROUS WORKS OF RUSSIAN WRITERS AND POETS, where A. PUSHKIN NAMED AS ONE OF THEM.

In any case, after finishing analyzing your notes on "Ruslan & Ludmila" I will post my thought in regards to the issue of Seth being an artificially created Judeo-Masonic "archetype"...to conceal the real entity behind Tetragrammaton and to break the search beam of anyone who will make attempt to find out the real information about identity of Hebrew "god". It is suffice to say here that studying Hermetism [Hermeticism], especially "teachings" of Thoth/Hermes Trismegistus - he is also Jehuti, Tahuti, Tehuti, Zehuti, Techu, Tetu, Thot, Thout, Thōout, ḏḥwty, ḏḥw) and Rosicrucianism as the later branch of it it became cleas obvious that the whole Judeo-Masonic-Yahwistic MATRIX consist from and based on these names - Osiris, Isis, Seth, Thoth, Hermes, Bacchus, Dionysus, etc. All entities and named are artificially created MATRIX. there is only one real name in this list is Osiris and in my opinion current Judeo-Yahwistic power pyramid stands on one name of one of the Old Nachash-Nagas  who’s name was Osiris (his other names are Bacchus, Dionysus, Vakha, Vakhoris, Bussiris, etc). Consequently, you may call current  Judeo-Masonic Yahwism simply – MODERRN OSIRIANISM.
This is the problem I already see in your interpretation of A.P's work.  And definitely, the creation of artificial Seth and other non-existent “Egyption” pantheon of “gods” was necessary as it was necessary the creation of Satan in Christianity and Islam.  In my opinion this is old game and old tactics of Nachash-Nagas behind YHWH.

...but,  I will post the full article about that.

P.S.

HERE IS SOME LIGHT ON OSIRIS WHO ALWAYS WAS A SECONDARY GOD IN KHEMETIC (EGYPTIAN) PANTHEON. ALL LEGENDS AND STORIES ABOUT HIS DEEDS, CREATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH AND ALSO HUMANITY IS PURE ARTIFICIALLY CREATED STORIES BY OSIRIAN PRIESTHOOD:

Кощей   קושצ'אי   *   נָחַשׁ ‎ (nâchash)   *   नाग  (nāgá)

The origin of Nagas & Nachash and the origin of Osiris/Seth.

Look again at the neuro-lingual conteiners (roots) of the words in Slavic, Hebrew and Sanskrit and compare them:

Кощей  (COSCHEI)  קושצ'אי  *   (nâchash) נָחַשׁ  *   नाग  (nāgá)

First of all,

Word NAGA does not come from Sanskrit, it comes from Slavic Aryan (H'Aryan and Da'Aryan), it was simply recorded in Sanskrit upon arrival of H'Aryans and Da’Aryans on the Saraswati river in Indus Valley. Sanskrit itself is artificially created language (for the preservation of H'Aryan and Da'Aryan oral traditions since approximately ~603,000 BC) and derived from H'Aryan and Da'Aryan Runic  (1400 runes total). The closest language to H'Aryan and Da'Aryan currently is Russian or Old Slavic family of languages throughout the Europe. In Old Slavic the Sanskrit’s ORIGINAL word NAGAS was written as NAGI (НАГИ), with original meaning that alleged “Adam” and “Eve” (adapa race) were the "seed" and offspring of NAGAS (it is suffice to note here that all current human races are not descendants from Nagas-Nachash, except THE ORIGINAL HEBREWS – later described in Torah as the Levi (currently called Cohen) tribe which was artificially "cross-bread" to serve NAGAS-NACHASH themselves). When Bible was translated from the ORIGINAL OLD SLAVIC (H’Aryan) into alleged "ancient" Hebrew approximately in 1050 AD in Byzantium by the scribes of bloodline of Isaak Angel (Hebrew is an artificially created tongue and alphabet by NAGAS-NACHASH-COSCHEI), the neuro-lingual container of NAGAS (НАГИ) was intentionally translated and transliterated as word “NAKED”, thus changing the meaning of the original neuro-lingual container, and iwith the play on the root of the neuro-lingual container of the original word abbreviated THE OFFSPRING OF SAURIAN RACE NAGAS (НАГИ) it became to be a neuro-lingual container for the word NAKED  - all that was done for the sole purpose of hiding the original ancestry of ORIGINAL HEBREWS (Hebrew  [עִבְרִית]   means “cross-over through copulation”).

In "ancient" Hebrew (which is known only ~1000 years and the youngest of ALL "ancient" artificially created languages  - the phonetic play of the neuro-lingual container NAGI (НАГИ) was intentionally written as (ערם עירם ‛êyrôm ‛êrôm ), which also means (ערם ‎ ‛âram), - from where arrived the fictitious combined personage of A'Bram or Abraham's bloodline of Nagas-Nachash, who by the way was “the seed” and descendant of NAGAS or Shining Ones described in the legendary "Book of Enoch".

Secondly,

alleged Hebrew Nachash (נָחַשׁ ‎ nâchash) IS A COMBINATION OF TWO WORDS – NA-GA & NA-CHASH - THE FIRST PART OF THE WORD NAGA – “NA” and THE SECOND PART OF THE WORD NACHASH – “CHASH”. The neuro-lingual container of word nâchash is CHSH or SHCH.  Together it will fuse or morph two neuro-lingual containers together - “NA” and “CHASH” as “NA-CHASH”.

Both words NAGA (नाग) and NACHASH (נָחַשׁ) are describing absolutely and completely the same SEED or ANCESTRAL BLOODLINE AND THE ORIGIN OF THE FIRST CROSSBREEDS – CALLED HEBREWS, except the neuro-lingual container of NAGAS as it is in Sanskrit (NAGI) is older approximately 110,000 years than Hebrew NACHASH (נָחַשׁ).   
The origin of word nâchash is Old Slavic – Aryan. The original word and neuro-lingual container was COSCHEI (Кощей קושצ'אי) with neuro-lingual container or root CHSH or SHCH. After transliteration in/into Hebrew it became the word NHSH (נָחַשׁ) with the same neuro-lingual container as in Old Slavic and before that in Aryan. Word COSCHEI in Old Slavic is almost (with slight deviation) means exactly the same as neuro-lingual container of Sanskrit word “NAGI” and Old Slavic or Slovenic – “НАГИ”.

Simply put - two words abbreviate the entity which is Saurian in nature. As in Hebrew Torah the same entities are called NHSH (נָחַשׁ ‎ nâchash) or Shining Ones, including entity in Torah behing the Tetragrammaton called YHWH (Jehovah), also including the secondary nonetheless important god of Ek-Gipto OSIRIS who was the first seed of NAGAS in human flesh and was destroyed by Aryans.

Nevertheless, Manetho states in Manetho, Aegyptiaca., frag. 42, 1.75-79.2
that alleged priest Moses (with his brother Aaron), - one is the "law giver" and the other one "law enforcer” – both were worshipers of NACHASH-NAGAS. In addition to all Saurian story Priest Moses was Osirian priest himself continuing the NACHASH (נָחַשׁ) - NAGAS bloodline of crossbreeds and their servants.

Frankenstein.

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блин, а че это Франкенштейн на вражеском пишет? :sceptic:
пусть, чтоли потрудится на русский перевести.

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Frankenstein в целом твоя мысль понятна. Так мы здесь в целом и уверены, в том, что Яхве, он же Сетх и является Змеем или Ящером. Но у нас есть сильные сомнения в том, что он принадлежит к цивилизации Нагов, явленных в индуизме и буддизме. У нас есть версия что он принадлежит к цивилизации Ануннаков, которую характеризуют как драконоподобную цивилизацию. Это две разные иерархии. Если ты почитаешь предполагаемое происхождение цивилизации Нагов Наги , то возможно согласишься, что Наг или Кощей Яхве принадлежит к совсем иной иерархии, нежели Наги буддизма.
Однако помимо этого ты утверждаешь, что и Осирис тоже является нагом и Драконом? Так следует понимать твои слова? В таком случае и Исида- тоже жена Дракона и Гор - их сын тоже Дракон?
И еще правомерно ли будет, с твоей точки зрения, выводить слово Cohen от COSCHEI - Кощея, учитывая то, что звука Щ в иврите не существует?

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Процессы глобализации набирают обороты и форум выходит на международный уровень.

Версия о том что Осирис - дракон развивается в Сша течением newage. Первой их задачей является разрушение всех известных культов на земле через "разоблачение" персоналиев. Осирис в основном приписывается к категории драконовых из-за изображения его лица и рук зеленым цветом (это единственное их веское доказательство). http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Усир
У меня две версии зачем это делается:
1) Это проделки "сетха", если он "плохой" то и все должны быть такими.
2) Проделки рептоидов, чтобы показать их значимость в жизни человека. Типа "Даже Осирис наш агент" Т.е пытаются отобрать у людей силу и значимость и показать какие мы ничтожные по сравнению с рептоидами. 

Исида зеленым цветом не изображалась и Гор тоже.

P/S На форуме была под именами Виктория, Салтан, Вита, теперь благодаря админу получила статус участника.

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то что у Осириса цвет кожи зеленый - это еще не значит что он рептилойд.
он же был символом возрождения и вечной жизни, т.е природы. вот и изображается зеленым. :rolleyes:
к тому же сын Осириса - Гор. он изображается с головой сокола.
в Изиде тоже ничего земноводного нету.

Отредактировано ODES (2010-09-23 16:03:07)

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Frankenstein
Why do you assert that Egyptian pantheon of gods is artificial? Can you give some links to original information about this? What can you say about all images and statues of gods (and chronicles) in Egypt (were all these things counterfeited)?
Where is possible to find information, that Osiris was naga and, especially,  that his other names are Bacchus, Dionysus, Vakha?
And where have you found info that bible was originally written in old slavic language?

Отредактировано axinedy (2010-09-23 22:31:23)

172

axinedy написал(а):

Why do you assert that Egyptian pantheon of gods is artificial? Can you give some links to original information about this? What can you say about all images and statues of gods (and chronicles) in Egypt (were all these things counterfeited)?
Where is possible to find information, that Osiris was naga and, especially,  that his other names are Bacchus, Dionysus, Vakha?
And where have you found info that bible was originally written in old slavic language?

axinedy,
when I said “Bible was originally written in Old Slavic”, I mean the part of Tanach that IS NOT PENTATEUCH (5 book of “Moses”). So called Torah was added to the corpus generally called today as Torah or Tanach where Torah is included. The latest evidence as confirmation to my own research was studying the works of mathematician A. Fomenko – all his books. I'd like to state THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING FOMENKO SAYS IN HIS BOOKS BY LITERALLY PUSHING HIS FINAL CONCLUSIONS AS OBVIOUS “FACTS”. In a sense he has been "advised" by rather darker type of Yahwists-kabbalists on the issues of chronology of human race, - it is very true that even toughest kabbalist and Zohar practitioner would have obvious difficulty in objective “Hebrew Torahic Chronology", which in reality is ABSOLUTE ARTIFICIAL “SCIENTIFICALLY” MASKED HOAX.
Nevertheless, in my opinion being partially a troller (intentional disinformant) himself Fomenko did a few things right, especially in area of so called Torahic chronology and Judaic history which would include “old” Hebraism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam claiming its YOUNG AGE. Yes, in comparison to the Aryan timeline and chronology Hebraic history, THE HISTORY OF CROSSBREEDING IS PRETTY YOUNG, STARTING FROM 3767 BC, This is the time when first Naga-Nachash crossbreed “Adama” was born. The problem is that “Adam” is not the father of human kind, he was special human and non-human DNA crossbreed. And that date is the beginning the story of Hebrews-crossbreeds. This same story was later compiled in Sumer, its colony Ek-Gipto, Ephiopia, Babylon-Assyria and written compilation ended in Byzantium. And this is the new timeline in his “new chronology” Fomenko describes just brilliantly in his books. Only fools do not understand what he is doing…HE IS NOT TOUCHING ARYAN – PURE HUMAN (RASA) CHRONOLOGY WHICH GOES 600,000 YEARS BACK.
The biggest mistake and fault of Fomenko’s so called "new chronology" is that he based it on...Torah-Tanach ONLY and consequently the whole Bible, making it as a GENERIC JUDEO-CHRISTIAN PLATFORM OF “HUMAN” APPEARANCE ON THE PLANETARY SCENE WITH ITS REAL HISTORY AND CIVILIZATION. He states that everything started from ADAM,  implying that biblical records and chronology are “approximately” correct. That is his main absurd and absolute genius - "paid for" research reveals black kabbalistic holes in authenticity of Judeo-Masonic Yahwistic legend that was forcefully imposed on Aryan race (RASA)..
In any case Fomenko is absolutely correct about the age of Hebrews, Judeo-Chistian paradigm of chronological Black Boxes of history, about approximate time of the writing of alleged “Hebrew” Torah, Tanach and consequently the whole Bible by dating all of them to ~1000 AD. By the way, the oldest Hebrew Tanach called Codex Leningradensis or Leningrad Codex, was compiled exactly in ~1050 AD and it was done not in current Russia (Tartaria), but in partially then ruled Byzantium by Slavs Aryans. The place of the writing "cycles" of the alleged books of the Bible Fomenko is giving correct also –  approximately ~1000 – 1250 AD Byzantium, - not current Palestine, BCE Babylon or Mesopotamia region in general, which means that Hebrews (Jews especially) are not “ancient” people, their alleged “god” is not “ancient” deity, more over - they are not even an authors of the mentioned above texts, but re-writers, re-compilers and re-interpreters.
THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS AND COMPILERS WERE ARYANS (including the main Aryan genetic bloodline – Slavs)  Another thing though, -  Fomenko has proved that part of Tanach (Bible that IS NOT PENTATEUCH) was written by Slavs Aryans, - including Psalms, all books of Prophets, the New Testament, etc WITHOUT MONOTHEISTIC BELIEFS AND YAHWISTIC DEADLY IDEOLOGY. Later on a lot of text was inserted and Original Bible was re-compiled. Re-compilation of the Bible continued further by Yahwistic Vatican till Rosicrucians took over the new “translation” under Martin Luther.
The scribes of bloodline of crossbreed and Nachash worshipper Isaak Angel (real factual personage in Byzantium), who was the High Priest of Sanhedrin at that time has re-compiled Old Slavic scrolls and texts of DAVYDS (Druids) and inserted Yahwistic (Levitic) version of Pentateuch making it the beginning of the book known today as Bible. It is very obvious and simple to understand that pro-Yahwistic cabinet of later chronology and history adjustment Jesuit Scaliger (from The Order of Jesus) re-recompiled Isaak’s version of "Slavic-Aryan Bible" several times to introduce overall history of human race tight to the alleged "Adam and Eve", "creator-god" Jehovah, Shining One Noah with his sons-crossbreeds, and all artificial package of characters-archetypes in current version of the Bible.
In today's “linguistic” disciplines persists perverted “ACCEPTED” (by who?) PARADIGM THAT  HEBREW  IS THE  OLDEST  TONGUE,  ALPHABET and consequently MONOTHEISTIC "FAITH", but even Fomenko proves that it is pure nonsense and hoax.
Hebrew derived from Akkadian, Akkadian derived from Phoenician, and Phoenician in its own right derived from Sumerian Nagas-Nachash-Anunnaki cuneiform that was an artificial substitute for the Phoenician writing, which was what is known today as THAT OLD SLAVIC-ARYAN (Phoenicians were Slavs-Aryans and Aryans).
The second accepted notion is that Old Slavic derived from Greek, but when you study the neuro-linguistics of both - Old Slavic and Greek, you will quickly find out that 90% of neuro-lingual containers of Greek language is that of Old Slavic.
So, the issue is in the following - Old Slavic is the ORIGINAL mother tongue and language of Greek and not the other way around. Please read book of JOSEPH YAHUDA “HEBREW IS GREEK” (my note – he has proved that Hebrew derived from Greek, and as I mentioned already Greek derived from Old Slavic).
The same can be easily proven with Sanskrit - Sanskrit IS NOT THE MOTHER TONGUE AND LANGUAGE OF SLAVIC (or Russian [Slavonic] family of languages, but the other way around - artificial Sanskrit tongue, language and alphabet derived from Slavic Aryan, - in this regard I absolutely agree with V. Chudinov's research - 75% of Sanskrit words have absolute Slavic neuro-lingual containers and can be easily deciphered with current modern Russian. ALL OTHER WORLD LANGUAGES WON’T DO IT !!!
From here arrives one interesting fact, - the Hebrew alphabet and tongue and language is an artificial product of the above mentioned languages and ESPECIALLY THE ORIGINAL OLD SLAVIC (or Slavonic).
Please note, when I say OLD SLAVIC, I am not talking about OLD SLAVIC “CHURCH” LANGUAGE AND INVENTED ALPHABET AFTER BLOODY  CHRISTIANIZATION OF KIEVAN RUS, but one that used to be THAT ONE LANGUAGE OF SANSKRIT RISHIS (AND ALL HUMANITY) IN ANTEDILUVIAN TIMES IN DISTANT HYPERBOREA (Da’Arya). Please read “THE ARCTIC HOME IN THE VEDAS” by Lokamanya Bâl Gangâdhar Tilak 

http://www.vaidilute.com/books/tilak/ti … tents.html

So, who wrote originally the book, called Pentateuch or Torah (originally derived from ARYAN TAROT system)? Most probably Aryans who were later known as Druids - High Priests of sunken Hyperborea, (also known as H'Aryans). The neuro-lingual container for DRUID IS “DRD” or DVD with fluctuation to root “DVT”. From this neuro-lingual root arrived the legendary and absolutely not Hebrew word DAVID or correctly title of the Priest - DAVYD.
Doing research on the subject of Torah it would be very good (if not imperative) to read work of COMYNS BEAUMONT: "Britain - the key to world history" (book is extremely difficult to find since CIA bought copyrights and refuse to publish it worldwide).
I personally disagree with Comyns' interpretation of who was the original Aryan civilization (Britts have been always rather arrogant), but if he would study Slavs and Slavic Aryan civilization he would understand that English is also artificially created tongue, language and alphabet, when the original is and always was THAT OLD SLAVIC ARYAN (Da’ARYAN  FROM  HYPERBOREA).
Despite Comyns' mistakes and problems with definitions of THE ORIGIN OF ARYAN CIVILIZATION he puts it very clear in his work, - THE ORIGINAL LOST BIBLE TEXTS WERE WRITTEN BY ARYANS, but perverted later on by Yahwistic NACHASH followers-crossbreeds of Osirian priest "Moses". They were called LEVITES (current abbreviation for the descendant DNA of that tribe is COHEN).

P.S.
On the subject of Osiris being NAGA-NACHASH-SAURIAN crossbreed please read my response to Ulis when I will post it…
But, a few things I will put here... also please see attached images below:
First three are the books needed to read for the mentioned above information. The other three images were taken in Bacchus temple, which used to be Temple of Osiris near the Temple of Ba’al (also called The Temple of Jupiter).
In addition here is an excerpt from Diodorus Siculus  “Book I (beginning)”, page 39 on Osiris:
Quote: “… Now the men of Egypt, he says, when ages ago they came into existence, as they looked up at the firmament and were struck with both awe and wonder at the nature of the universe, conceived that two gods were both eternal and first, namely, the sun and the moon, whom they called respectively Osiris and Isis, these appellations having in each case been based upon a certain meaning in them. 12. For when the names are translated into Greek Osiris means "many-eyed," and properly so; for in shedding his rays in every direction he survives with many eyes, as it were, all land and sea. And the words of the poet are also in agreement with this conception when he says: The sun, who sees all things and hears all things. And of the ancient Greek writers of mythology some give to Osiris the name Dionysus or, with a slight change in form, Sirius. One of them, Eumolpus, in his Bacchic Hymn speaks of Our Dionysus, shining like a star,
With fiery eye in every ray; while Orpheus says: And this is why men call him Shining One And Dionysus…” End quote.

Note: every serious scholar knows that Dionysus is Bacchus and consequently Bacchus is Osiris, he is also Ea or Enki and there is sufficient information that alleged Osirion in Abydos is the place where Ea/Enki rests. Also it is known that Enki was Anunnaki Saurian crossbreed, so was Osiris…
Here is quote from the same book of Diodorus Siculus  “Book I (beginning)” about “mysterious” birth of Osiris (not of Aryan bloodline), pages 74-75:

Quote:
“…4. Cadmus, who was a citizen of Egyptian Thebes, begat several children, of whom one was Semelê; she was violated by an unknown person, became pregnant, and after seven months gave birth to a child whose appearance was such as the Egyptians hold had been that of Osiris. Now such a child is not usually brought into the world alive, either because it is contrary to the will of the gods or because the law of nature does not admit of it. 5. But when Cadmus found out what had taken place, having at the same time a reply from an oracle commanding him to observe the laws of his fathers, he both gilded the infant and paid it the appropriate sacrifices, on the ground that there had been a sort of epiphany of Osiris among men. 6. The fatherhood of the child he attributed to Zeus, in this way magnifying Osiris and averting slander from his violated daughter; and this is the reason why the tale was given out among the Greeks to the effect that Semelê, the daughter of Cadmus, was the mother of Osiris by Zeus…” End quote.

Please note that described above birth of Osiris is not as Aryan King but typical for the concealment of crossbreeding. From here derived all following IMMACULATE CONCEPTIONS in Judaism, Christianity and Islam…All these three – Judaism, Christianity and Islam are Old Osirianism 
 
Frankenstein.

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Отредактировано Frankenstein (2010-09-24 08:42:17)

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axinedy написал(а):

Why do you assert that Egyptian pantheon of gods is artificial? Can you give some links to original information about this? What can you say about all images and statues of gods (and chronicles) in Egypt (were all these things counterfeited)?
Where is possible to find information, that Osiris was Naga crossbreed and especially,  that his other names are Bacchus, Dionysus, Vakha?
And where have you found info that bible was originally written in old slavic language?

...additional images that did not load with the first post...Images were taken in the Bacchus Temple inside The Temple of Ba'al (Jupiter). Bacchus Temple used to be called The Temple of Osiris also, was built almost inside the Jupiter Temple previously called The House of Ba'al.

Osiris, Bacchus, Dionysus, later Egyptian KRST and Christian Christ are one and the same personalities-archetypes.

Frankenstein.

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Отредактировано Frankenstein (2010-09-24 08:52:56)

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Уважаемый Frankenstein, Аз вполне согласен с тобой в оценке "научной" ценности работ Фоменко и Носовского. Наблюдаю эту подрывную работу уже лет 15 и уже сделал свои выводы. Их цель - оскопить историю человечества, в частности - арийских этносов и дать "научное" подтверждение библейской хронологии. Думаю, что их издательскую деятельность тайно финансируют сионистские, или точнее- сетхианские круги в России.
Однако твои доказательства того, что Осирис есть Вакх - Дионис не убедительны, и вот почему. Дионис - малоазиатское божество, его культ оформился где то в середине 1 тыс. до н. э. Времена царствования Осириса по Манефону - это далекие тысячелетия до этих времен. Формальной причиной отождествления Осириса и Диониса является то, что это как бы умирающие - воскрешающие боги. Однако таких богов было десятки! И поэтому нет никакой причины отождествлять Осириса с Дионисом. Осирис не был воскрешающим Богом. Он был убит, стал судьей в царстве мертвых и больше на земле не возрождался. Да, во время мистерий Исиды и Осириса жрецы поливали семена пшеницы, посеянные на символической могиле Осириса, они всходили и это было свидетельством возрождения жизни. Культовая практика дионисийских мистерий была иная, как и в орфических мистериях предполагалось, что божество - Дионис или Кора- в орфических таинствах реально возрождается на Земле, когда все расцветает. Когда Солнце начинает убывать, природа замирать, то эти божества "умирали" и уходили в царство мертвых. Можно интерпретировать эти процессы, как символизацию реинкарнации Души.
Поэтому еще раз скажу, что Осирис скорее всего был Царем Гипербореи, ибо его имя звучало как А Сар. А Осирис- это уже грециизированная транскрипция его имени, и поэтому выводить название звезды Сириус из его имени неправильно.

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axinedy написал(а):

Why do you assert that Egyptian pantheon of gods is artificial? Can you give some links to original information about this? What can you say about all images and statues of gods (and chronicles) in Egypt (were all these things counterfeited)?
Where is possible to find information, that Osiris was naga and, especially,  that his other names are Bacchus, Dionysus, Vakha?
And where have you found info that bible was originally written in old slavic language?

This one is the image which refused to upload, but I think it rather important. All previous shots were taken from this portico on the columns above in Bacchus-Osiris Temple inside the Baal Temple in Baalbek, the imagery of Saurian entities are not seen unless you amplify them with the good photo or video camera. Guides don't like to talk about them if you ask. These pictures are not advertised in any library on architecture because of the obvious relic of the Bacchus "mysteries" that were held in the Temple of Bacchus (Vakha, Vachoris, Busiris or Osiris). The mentioned "mysteries" were pretty understandable, - the priests of the temple knew about astral conjunction and live tunnels between the realm of Nav' (from here is the meaning of "Hebrew" Navin - in Slavic would be known as ONE WHO IS FROM REALM OF NAV') and the realm of YAV' (material world).

On the picture is shown the moment of the appearance of the Saurian entity otherwise called as NAGA-HA-NACHASH or servant of the Shining One. Some initiated say that those appearing on the picture are of the lower "grade" servants to the "Masters" who are not necessarily willing to manifest themselves in flesh in the realm of NAV'.

Also as seen on the picture, Saurian is inside the alleged "merkaba", former symbol of Veles-Ba'al which became later on "The Star' of David" (Davyd). The same principals of access and communication to/with astral realm were practiced by Levites who were servants of NCHSH - MASTERS...

I hope I was clear answering your question...

Frankenstein.

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И вообще мы тут уклонились от основной темы - Сетх. Почему-то Frankenstein все время упирает на то, что Осирис был Нагом, но ничего не говорит о о Сетхе, который по мифу был его братом. И мы также не услышали ответ, была ли Исида тоже Нагиней? И их сын Гор это тоже змей?
Что же касается Меркабы - то это не есть изобретение Нагов. Слово имеет три арийских корня - МЕР - мера, мерить пространство, простор, КА - воплощенная Душа или Душа в Теле, и БА- Атма, Душа. Меркабой владел Финн в поэме Пушкина "Руслан и Людмила", который в два прыжка мог преодолевать всю Вселенную.

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Isida написал(а):

Версия о том что Осирис - дракон развивается в Сша течением newage. Первой их задачей является разрушение всех известных культов на земле через "разоблачение" персоналиев.

Isida,

your assumption is not correct, US is not a country but was and still is the colony of England and you know who controls England - the same Saurians that are destroying Slavic Aryan Russia and are destroying the remnants of the same Aryan DNA in US and Europe. I think you will accept the fact that all gods in Egypt before the appearance of Osiris with his pantheon were of Aryan origin - from Arktos, Da'Arya, Hyperborea with natural pure human DNA (as Ulis brilliantly said САМОРОДКИ - САМОРОЖДЕННЫЕ). Only AFTER the appearance of the pantheon of CROSSBREEDS, headed by Osiris, Isis, Seth (excluding Horus) and other CREATURES-CROSSBREEDS, the whole Egypt sunk into the chaos and finally was destroyed.

It is imperative to note that Osiris was not ДРАКОН - ЯЩЕР as you mentioned but lover grade CREATURE - as Ulis says ТВАРЬ, in another words CROSSBREED of human and non-human DNA.

That's all. and it really does not matter into what category you will put THE CREATURE, - he is the part of the deadly MATRIX of the astral machine called ASHTAR COLLECTIVE that was intentionally created to suck energy from the realm of YAV' and to consume souls of golems (Jews) under the Osirian-Yahwistic priesthood or gois (Aryans) who were deluded into this "Egyptian" pantheon when deceised will enter the realm of NAV'.

Being extremely scared of death and composing THE BOOK OF THE DEAD poor Osiris being himself a crossbreed did not know that beside the realm of YAV' (ЯВИ) and NAV' (НАВИ) there is a realm of PRAV' (ПРАВИ). And right there his Osirian Magik stopped. Why? Because he never was there before manifesting in the human flesh...He knew only the realm of NAV'. One has to read The Egyptian Book of the Dead very thoroughly in order to understand that.

BTW, the "new age" movements are controlled exactly (or mostly) the same way as an "old age" during the take over of crossbreeds like Osiris...

F.

178

Мер-физическое тело,Ка-метальное тело,Ба-астральное тело. Витрувианский человек

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179

Хорошо, пусть Осирис Тварная сущность. Могу даже согласится с этим, хотя ничего убедительного не услышал в пользу этой версии. Но в таком случае, кто, по твоему мнению,  Сетх - Черномор, которого Осирис в поэме "Руслан и Людмила" называет "меньшой брат, семейства нашего позор"?
Вот этот фрагмент на английском:

http://russian-crafts.com/tales/rus_lud.html

By none on battlefield excelled
Or to lay dow^n my arms compelled.
And happy I-were't not for my
Young malformed brother's rivalry!
For Chernomor, that fount of hatred,
Alone my downfall perpetrated!
A bearded midget and a stain
Upon our family's good name,
For me who was both tall and straight
He felt a bitter jealousy,
But hid his all-consuming hate
Behind an outward courtesy.
Alas! I have been simple ever,
While he, this wretch of comic height,
Is diabolically clever
And full of viciousness and spite.
Besides-I quake as I confess this-
That fancy beard of his possessed is
Of magic powers: while whole it stays
That true embodiment of evil,
The dwarf, is safe from harm.

Далее Head описывает, как Черномор его убил, отсекши голову мечом. А меч между прочим - это египтеский серпообразный меч Кхопеш, который висит над всем миром на гербе СССР и сохранился до сих пор на многих официальных зданиях РФ. Все думают, что это обычный крестьянский серп, а на самом деле - это магическое орудие убийства и пресечение эволюции человека. Когда Сетх окончательно захватил нашу страну, он оповестил всех Посвященных, что именно он владелец и Хозяин этой страны и собирается стать властелином мира.
Так что же по твоему Черномор?

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180

Ulis написал(а):

И еще правомерно ли будет, с твоей точки зрения, выводить слово Cohen от COSCHEI - Кощея, учитывая то, что звука Щ в иврите не существует?

Ulis,

with all respect to you I think you misunderstood what I said and misinterpreted a few things.

I did not compare MODERN YIDISH word COHEN with the neuro-lingual container N*CHSH per se, - the word COHEN (or KOHEN - Savior, Messiah, Priest, and Prophet ) is made up modern transliteration of what word PRIEST meant and was written as in Hebrew.

The word was נָחַשׁ , where without vowels THE NEURO-LINGUAL CONTAINER OF IT (IN HEBREW) was N*SHCH exactly the same as K*SHCH (koschei).

What I said was - that THE WORD ITSELF (the neuro-lingual container of it) came into Hebrew from the other language (which definitely points to Slavic [Aryan]) and means exactly the same - SHCH in Slavic and mirrored CHSH in Hebrew. Since there is no any other identical neuro-lingual root in any other language, you can observe the derivation of the meaning that was transferred from one linguistic root to another NOT CHANGED.

You know that all Magik starts from the neuro-linguistic thought form, the same happened with the programming of the profane…The meaning of “Cohen” is that case…

And yes, Levites were servants of the NCHSH – YHWH cult and were called as נָחַשׁ . The long searched for “seed of Cohens” in modern genealogy (Lebedev’s work) abbreviates the ancestral “Hebrew” Cohen line to the “tribe” of Levi (Levites).

Other than that we are on one page - breath the same "air" and warm ourselves with the same "fire".

I am reading a lot of your posts and comments to the articles written by others...and really enjoy them, you are one who “knows his stuff”.

I would like to get familiar with your thought form by reading the rest of the posts and will add my objections in relation to some details you gave in "Ruslan and Ludmila", especially to Berosus’ Kings List, Manetho's works, etc in regards to Osiris and Seth.

F.


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